Live vanaf Laracon EU 2026 spreken we met Shane Rosenthal van het NativePHP-team.
Shane vertelt over zijn achtergrond, zijn liefde voor bouwen en hoe NativePHP nieuwe deuren opent voor Laravel-ontwikkelaars. Het gesprek laat zien hoe Laravel-kennis ook buiten klassieke webapplicaties waardevol kan zijn.
Yeah. >> Welcome to the Dutchl from 2026. >> Yeah, this is awesome, right? >> That is awesome. >> That's great. >> Wow. >> Okay, so welcome a new guest all of a sudden from the boot here behind. >> Um yeah, tell us your name. >> My name is Shane Rosenthal. All right. >> And I'm from the native PHP crew. >> Okay, cool. >> You didn't ask for that, but I I gave it to you. >> Yeah, of course. Yeah, I don't ask a lot of things, but may most people give me [ __ ] >> Well, >> happy to join that list. >> Yeah. >> All right. Really cool, man. So, um Yeah. So, um yeah, can you tell a little bit about yourself and not not fully p native PHP, but I want to learn a bit about >> Sure. I'm 43, Sagittarius, single ladies out there. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, actually, I'm not kidding, but you know. Um, yeah. Uh, so I'm from America. I'm from the US. I live, uh, I tell everybody, nobody knows where I'm from, but if you know where Florida is, you go up about an inch, so I'm a little bit north of Florida. Charlotte, North Carolina is real close to my house. That's where I'm from. >> Our weather is very similar to Amsterdam. So, I feel pretty at least for this week that we're here. And, uh, >> yeah, I've got a a son and uh, I I work I'm a workaholic and I love caffeine.
How how old is your son? >> He is 16 years old. Hi, Carson. >> I don't think he's watching, but I'll send this over. >> Yeah. Hey, >> cool. >> Talking about you. >> Nice. Yeah. >> Cool. 16. Oh, okay. Cool. >> Nice. >> Uh what else? I mean, I I just I work all the time and I love working all the time. It's so fun uh what I'm working on with native PHP. It's just uh >> I'm always finding new ground and like I'm like the first one there. So, I'm like you guys, you guys, like look at this. Look what you can do. And it's just one thing after another after another. It's a whole untapped territory. Yeah. >> Yeah. Also, this so a metaphor that I use in my work a lot is that behind every door there's a new three doors that you can open again. >> Yeah. That's cool. And um yeah, you found something really uh niche, but again also the answer to what a lot of people want to have. You have like the ability to maybe you can talk to tell it by yourself better. Yeah. So what is native P ph PHP? Native PHP is uh it starts with a question. So first of all uh I'm only one half uh Simon Hemp as you know is uh my my brother from another mother. He is uh he's about to talk actually in like an hour or something. Um >> he he came out with this desktop thing a few years ago. So uh the whole concept was like >> I want to build desktop apps. I love Laravel. I want to build desktop apps with Laravel. And so he's been trying to hack away at that and figure that out in just slowly over and um I met him I met him a while ago
but we really like hit it off at Laracon US two years ago and became like best friends and like you know that's what she said jokes over and over and like just we were just the same vibe and so like uh leaving that that Laracon um we just talked to each other for like four or five hours every day just as to become friends you know and so we decided to work on We wanted to work on something, but um we both were like we both worked on projects solo for years and they just fizzle out and I'm like I'm never doing it again. And then this was kind of like an accident, you know, uh how this came about with mobile stuff. >> But but you worked for clients or something like that. >> Uh together? >> No, for for yourself. >> Yeah, I've been I've been mostly freelance. Um yeah, you know, I worked for some big companies. I worked Fizer for like 3 years, some big like US companies, like local US companies, but they're like big Shopify companies and stuff like that. So, >> uh, been with Laravel though since 2012, 2013, something like this. So, um, >> but yeah, uh, the mobile stuff, I think that's that's, um, kind of got a lot of attention. I think that's a, >> of course, >> I feel like I feel like mobile is is probably one of the biggest industries in the world. I mean, mobile applications, right? and the fact that we're all PHP developers and we're kind of uh gated from from being able to do unless we learn something new or fully rely on AI which there's pros and cons to that as we all know enterprise
probably doesn't like that and so it's like let's try the mobile stuff and so he cracked it we were friends we were already doing a podcast he figured it out uh he never told me how he just told me like conceptually like what he was doing and he got it for iOS he got the PHP binaries built and >> all this stuff and I remember like back in the day uh like just compiling PHP on a production server to switch versions and I'm like I could figure this out and so I just I went to chat GPT and initially this before Claude code was you know you know my best friend you know >> but um like he didn't even know it when he was talking last year on stage I was working on compiling Android and so >> I kept asking him weird questions over the next couple weeks like how do you how many like do you have this extension in your PHP binary he's like uh no I do this one and like how big is your your file sides when you're done. He's like, "It's this." I'm like, "Are they static? Are they embedded?" And he's like, "What are you doing?" He's like, he's like, "Get on a call with me." We got on a call. He's like, "So, are you like are you trying to compete with me?" And I'm like, "No, man." I'm like, "I want I want to work with you. I just feel like I could do this, you know?" >> And he's like, >> "We should start a company." And so, we did like the next day we started a company. And by Frost Technology was February 17th. So, we're celebrating a year.
So, you had a lot of trust in each other at that moment, right? That's really important because >> we we both have because of our past like traumas from business and personal experiences we like >> I will start with trust but you break it and we're we're done and so we are way over transparent with each other and to like >> I would say to a fault but it's there's no fault in being too transparent I don't think we we just share everything. you're talking like 4 hours a day then uh I mean we've had must got to be >> I remember like it was just a couple months ago when we were figuring out what we're going to do for version 3 um the open source and all that stuff um I mean it was like three or four days in a row we were 14 hours >> wow >> on a call just we're just talking >> Simon is from from England right >> so I I always say he's like he lives in a weird he's English but he lives uh in the Canary Islands which is off the coast of Africa but is he's sp it's Spanish island told it he told it the the last year in the in Yeah. Yeah. 5 hour 5 hour difference. So I wake up at like 7:00 in the morning >> and I immediately message him like go eat lunch so that by the time I get my coffee and I'm up and ready he's already had his lunch and we can meet and we just start talking. So >> nice.
Cool. >> Real nice. Real special. It's a real uh real special relationship. Yeah. >> One of the best relationships I've had in my life I think. Yeah. It works very well and we're successful in what you know to we didn't think we'd ever be this far. So I mean that's that's a sign of success I think. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So what's the the situation now then with the native PHP? >> What's the situation now? All right. So >> what's the situation tomorrow? Actually that's the question of course but >> all right um let's talk a little bit about where we are currently and um I will tell you I will tell you for tomorrow. Oh, so I talk at 11:00 uh in the morning tomorrow, Amsterdam time. I think it's same time zone for you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. I don't know where I'm at. I don't know. >> Not America. That's where I'm at. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, um about 5 days ago, I I rewrote my whole talk. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, I >> Yeah. >> Um Well, I I stumbled I didn't stumble into something. I worked really hard to figure something out that I've wanted to figure out for a long time and I I I figured it out and um >> I couldn't sleep for days. I I I tell everyone now like uh like >> yeah there's a whole there's a whole story. I think this is probably a good place to tell the story I think. Uh so we went to India went to Leron India.
Nice. >> Um and that's where we announced version 3 and that's native PHP air. We're calling it air because it's lightweight. All the native stuff has been stripped out into plugins because there's there's some reasons and I'll talk about that tomorrow too. um like it was bloating the software every time everyone's like oh I want biometrics oh I want video oh I want all these things we're putting into core and whether or not you're using those APIs they're still there so it's bloat plus uh the app stores are rejecting our users apps because they would have like camera code but they're like I don't even use the camera but you have to have permission strings for Apple and they can detect that in the binaries of the of the code so it's like >> I'm like you can fake that and just put permission strings on that but that's not the right way to do it. So we're like we have to take these out people. So it's we have plugins now. They're composer packages. They contain PHP JavaScript and then Cotlin and Swift. And so you can call from PHP directly into the device and you we trigger events to go back into the through the web view back into PHP or JavaScript. So you can listen for interaction all that stuff. So >> that's >> that's one of the big things that was going to be my whole talk tomorrow. Uh now it's only about 15% 20% of my talk.
Uh, >> okay. So, there's something else also. >> There's something else also. All right. So, and I'll tell you my last slide. >> What was going to be my last slide is now my third slide. And I will I will tell you uh what that was. So, I can I can give you that much and I'll and I'll only hint at the other stuff. >> Sorry, but I have to do >> No, no, it's I'm all happy with this story. >> Yeah. Uh so the announcement uh we're coming out with 3.1 version 3.1 uh which will contain a few uh contributions now that we're open source so some some work from the community. >> Mhm. >> Um which is nice. I can't off the top of my head I don't remember specifics what we approved and and let in. But some some really nice things. Some people really thought through things with claude and uh did test. Do test. Please do test. That helps us a lot. >> Um and like good docs too on your on your pull requests because that that also like gives us context. you know, we tell Claude, "Go, >> you know, give me the the overview of this PR, but I still like to read what's what's going on with it." So, >> um, so there's some of those things, but when I went to India, I just, um, my heart grew five times like the Grinch or three times, whatever it was for the culture, for the people. Um, and so, uh, right now, um, we are running PHP 8.45 4 uh5 or 18 and uh iOS uh 18 plus 18.2 2 or 18 plus and then Android 13 plus and Android is like >> if you go 13 version 13 that's like for the last 3 4 years maybe.
Um so like meeting all these people that have Android devices that just can't >> it really got and I knew it was something I wanted to work on was try to get more Android users cover more versions covered. So, uh, the slides are very, uh, they'll be fun tomorrow, but, um, so we're going, uh, support version 12, which is, uh, we're going from like 64% of all, uh, Android mobile users. Yep. >> Which 64% sounds great, but then you learn there's 4 billion active users, is half the world's population is using Android. >> Uh, 64%. So, there's actually more people we're not servicing with Android that are using us on iOS. There's actually more. So going to version 12, that's like 79%. It's 15% increase, but we're going we're going >> that's a big increase. >> We're going further. >> Oh, >> we're going to go 11% 11. Version 11, which is 91%. >> Wow. >> But we're going further. >> No, >> version 8. >> What? Version eight. >> 99.7% of Android users will be able to use native PHP moving forward. >> But that's a big time back, right? It's a it's a huge support. goes back to about 2018 or so. Um, but we wanted the inclus and like the the things that were stopping us were kind of trivial. I just had to refactor our binaries a little bit and just the way we were loading things. So, it's not that wasn't a very difficult thing to do. I did try seven, it didn't work on seven. I'm like, that's far enough, you know, I don't need to do any more work on that.
There are issues. There are issues that are out of our control. So, like I want everybody, well, this will be documented. But the web views that ship with older devices, they don't support modern CSS. Um, and so like Tailwind breaks. Tailwind 4 breaks. >> Tailwind 3 is okay on some devices. So, >> you know, we we unlocked it for you. We're going to document that. There are like some shims and stuff like that that you can try to use in that context. And I've had Claude build me like post CSS processing stuff, you know, like all that kind of stuff. And it's I gotten it to work somewhat and it's like, all right, people can figure this out, but we'll support that. So, >> is it also because of the uh the plugins that you built some aside to it that you now can support all the versions? >> No, I don't think like >> there's not much uh to do with that. Uh each plugin like there it's very easy to like and I I thought this was like really the wrong way to do it. But there's like a lot of if conditionals like if Android version whatever is less than this then you use this code or not. And it's that's just the right way to do it. Yeah.
So it doesn't like bind in at some like gradal like very deep way. It's just conditionally writing your So we went through and updated all of our scripts. Very easy to just make sure they're backward compatible and >> and in India there are a lot of Android users. Uh >> there are a lot of Android users. >> Oh and that's why okay because in America there are not that much Android users. >> I mean I don't know. I I I think probably not but I mean there are a lot. I mean there are there it's not like there's no I know plenty of people with Android and they're like no Android only and so um >> the fact is I mean we're going from >> well I think that goes to one of the questions you were kind of hinting towards uh before like where do we want to go and it's like I don't want anyone to be >> excluded from what we're doing. So and that kind of goes towards towards that question. >> Yeah. Okay. Cool. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We also had like a shift in our web development as well like two years ago that everything has to be yeah we call it via uh >> uh >> it needs to be accessible >> access yeah accessible and that feels also really nice to have a website it just feels good you know >> and and it works with standards and stuff like that yeah so I can really imagine and uh yeah cool man >> there's some other uh like little nicities like some little uh devx tooling that we did with like the install and the run command. So before you'd have to do uh PHP artisan native install. Sometimes you'd push force
forceflex. It's going to force by default cuz that's fine. Okay. >> And then it would say oh you want Android or iOS or both. Now we're just if you're on Mac we're going to assume you want both. You can pass a flag in to just do iOS or Android or whatever. On Windows and Linux it's going to do just Android. So that just so just install and then run. Uh, also the install will uh it always downloads the binaries. Um, so we're going to we're caching those though in the Laravel uh application. So we can detect if they're already there. If they're already there, >> uh, then we'll just use the ones that are there. You don't have to keep downloading the binaries every time you do an install if you have to. And then >> uh there was one other Oh, uh, we're going to be detecting based on your um your composer.json. If you're 8.5 in composer, then we're going to install we're bumping up our minimum. Not our minimum. We're bumping up to supporting 8.5.3. So, uh, so we're going to be we're probably going to go backwards to to 8.3 and we'll just detect based on we're going to try to stay with Laravel.
I mean 13 is going to be 8.3. So, >> yeah. Yeah. >> Um, >> so sorry. >> So, uh, >> so, uh, another question because the you you just me mentioned that you changed the whole slide slide deck. Um, and that gave me the the the the the question that how you're talking about cloud as well. Cloud is improving the the the speed of working I I guess, but how much does it improve the development of native P ph PHP? >> I don't know how much it improves it because I've been using AI since the very beginning. So, um, it's gotten better and so >> you can trust things a bit more. I'm still very like uh guarding especially now that it's open source like I'm very like protecting and making sure cuz I want to set the standard for everybody else as well you know >> so with it being open source it's nice because uh well we're going to get to a nice place it's going to take some time but there's can be less work that we're going to have to do and it's so nice when people are like you guys should do such and like hey make a PR you know so like you can do that you're claude use your tokens not mine you know >> oh yeah >> um so Um, yeah, that's going to be that's going to free us up to do more stuff that we want to do inside the core that really that's not most people just don't understand. We want to bring people in to see everything, you know, there's no >> no hiding. And actually pretty soon we'll have like architecture white sheets and stuff like that. Just like how does this really work under the hood
and >> um which is part of my talk tomorrow and I'll I'll just leave you with that with that hint. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Really nice. >> Looking forward for that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah, >> I'm hyping it. I'm hyping it. And it's not just hype like uh yeah, I mean it's not any um there's nothing uh there's no lie when I say after I show everybody what I'm going to do tomorrow, the whole future of the project will change in the best way forever. And I've had people like on Twitter like try to guess. I'm like just guess. And that like no one's gotten it. One person, one person, I can't say who, but one person got it right. And uh I uh purposely didn't like their comment because I didn't want it to seem like they got it right, you know. I think it's probably the only one I didn't like. So if you want to go through my uh my Twitter uh maybe >> Yeah. Maybe we're done at L1 tomorrow and then >> or just wait till tomorrow. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> All right. So I have I have another question because this is a personal one for me. >> So um we we did a hackathon with the Dutch Larfell Foundation. Don't know if you know that because because we get all kind of some of tokens and stuff like that from you guys.
Yes, >> it was really nice. And it was also um uh a day here in uh the Netherlands where uh a girl was um killed. Uh yeah, this is all the plot twist. There was a girl killed and there was a whole um um >> it was a public outcry about the women's safety. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you for that. Um, so what we did in that hackathon, we uh made we we must made a h app to make uh woman feel safer at streets was really cool thing to do on a on a day. So what we did was uh well all kind of projects going on and um our uh team went for a native PHP uh solution but then make it sort of like uh a black box thing that you have in planes so that you can register everything with one button or something or like a switch on the on the side of your phone that you can um >> uh start like the blackbox functionality >> and then it register Oh, interesting. So, just record like location and if they feel unsafe, then at least they're being tracked and >> Yeah. video. >> That's a great idea. >> Yeah. So, that was our uh hackathon idea. >> Oh, that's cool. Yeah. >> And and um and we won, but actually we didn't want about Yeah.
Don't glaze over that. You won. Good job. Good job. >> That was good. And that was fine. Yeah. So, but we also won because we were the only one that get it really uh up and running on a phone within a day. >> Yeah. >> And because that's Yeah. It's still is a little bit of hard to from zero to go to 100 on uh for native PHP to run it on a phone. >> Um does that change a bit you you think? >> Um I well it depends. Um, so in my mind, and I don't know if this is true or not, for me when I first started, and it's hard to like zero your development environment out to retry. So like for me, it was very difficult to like to get Android builds running. I think iOS is pretty easy on a Mac because you just install Xcode for the most part. >> Um, like setting up the ENV bars on your machine and like all this stuff. I think the newer versions of Android Studio though do help uh more. So, I just helped my dad set up his environment >> on an old um I Intel processor, but still on a Mac, and he just installed Android Studio, and it just worked. So, we just built and it just works. So, I'm like, that's cool. So, I don't know if it's environment or if it's just like you got a white screen of death uh in the first run or you know, like depending on where the problem was.
Um, we are constantly like trying to address and make sure like that's a smooth thing like developer experience is very it's like crucial to us. That's one of our our the most important things to us. We want developers to have a great experience and we're growing in that, right? So, what was the problem? What what took time? >> Yeah, that's a good question because I was part of the team, but I did the design of it. >> Okay. >> So, I don't know actually that part of it. >> Yeah, it was a colleague of us that was uh pulling his hair out because it didn't work. It didn't work. But I don't know. Uh I wasn't there. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Were they trying on iOS or Android? >> Uh Android, I guess. Yeah, it was an Android phone. Yeah. But we got it work. >> Yeah. >> Well, all right. We figured it out. >> Yeah, we figured it out. >> So, the docs you I mean they are important. Uh we just had Pushpek, I don't know if you know Pushek from the Laravel team. He's on Laravel uh AI team. No. >> Uh he just redid our boost uh guidelines for us and that's coming out with version 3.1 as well. So Oh, nice.
They're I mean the old ones are are going back to version two still. So in version three, it's still version two in the boost guidelines. So he worked on that. I haven't really tested it very much, but he did took like 3 days and worked on it for us. So it's something that's a living breathing document anyway. So it's going to always be changing. So >> uh I would say boost use boost if you're using AI you know for sure and see if it will help you cuz like what's wrong with my installation or why isn't this running and maybe there's some troubleshooting that clog can provide. >> I think that would help as well because of course yeah of course >> yeah that's just what what coding is come to. >> Another question another situation here. So, uh, I've reached out for you, uh, like 2 months ago with with something that was really stupid because it didn't work, but maybe you can help me with finding out a solution for that. So, um, I made a a Laravel app and it's especially for baseball and softball coaches to help to find out statistics and team management. It's it's really cool, I think, in my opinion, but it helps me like a coach as well. So that's that's uh that's one fan of the system.
But in the Netherlands, there are now like 50 coaches are using it. But then again, I was I was wondering what uh how can I uh make this even bigger though so that the coaches in America, you have like a thousand coaches in the Netherlands and 2 million coaches in America can use it there as well. And I thought maybe I should make an app of my Laravel web app so that the uh audience the target audience find it by itself in the stores or something like that. Then again I was okay yeah could that be done with native PHP because I only need I think the web view but I don't know how that works. >> Yeah. So this is you're tapping into a lot of things here actually and I love to talk about this stuff cuz it's >> I have a big heart for education because I know like the more people learn to understand like just how is this working when you understand the how and the why that we did like there's some constraints that we have just cuz we're entering a mobile world there's some constraints with Laravel and how like compromises we had to make to make things work and and things like this right um so right now you cannot build uh for the web view and the and for the device. You can I mean it technically it will translate but the PHP that's running we see this in support tickets all the time and it's like >> I never like just I never tell everybody stop saying this but I think it every time which is it works in my browser but not on the device. It's a totally different PHP builds. It's totally
different. >> Um so like you could be running 8.2 locally but it's the same version. It's a 8.4.18 right now always right and it's got our extension in it. And so that's because like if you try to tap into like any Cotlin or Swiss code with that PHP like it's not going to handle properly. So we stop it at the PHP level >> cuz there's nothing to pass that call into native on a web on the web you know on in the browser the actual browser. >> So like I keep going back to like all right so if I wanted to open my um what's a good one biometric security >> on my device what would I expect that behavior to be on the on a on a browser >> right? So like it's just two different worlds. >> So you do have to think about like there you might have the same view and you might have the same kind of logic. >> And for that I say maybe put more of your logic into like a API server and trigger that from mobile and then just detect if you're online or offline because that that's a whole other challenge that we can talk about. >> But at least then you're not having to write code twice which is not always a bad thing. It's not especially if you're I mean if it's going to be on mobile and you have to think about things like biometric security. I could I could have said like microphone, but you have microphone access on on inside of the the browser. I could have said video, you could do that. I mean, there's there's things that could exist in both.
And maybe we explore some of that stuff, but >> inherently >> it's just a very different world. And and I think like if you look at any enterprise applications that are out there, they're never going to they're going to be themed similarly, but they're very bespoke experiences on the mobile application. And I think that's the right way to think about this. >> Okay. So write a new project with the same API stuff. >> Just rewrite the back end. Yeah. >> And just redo your whole design and >> two years of coding. Yeah. >> What I what I also recommend uh >> I like to do this personally is I'll put all of my API logic in the same repo as mobile >> and I'll deploy that repo to Forge. take the take the uh URL and put that in my envirrost uh yeah SAS to the app stores and now it's all in one repo at least right >> and I like locally I'll use either herd share or enrock or whatever to like serve that so I can still develop I do that until I get to a certain point until I like actually deploy it to a forge or cloud yeah >> and then I'll just put that in my local ENV until I'm production or do a staging environment or something like that and uh just code against that so you can actually use your device it's going and now you're already in that face. You're already, you know, there's no more groundwork you have to lay for that.
You're just building the application, >> right? Okay. Okay. That's a that's a um not a small answer for a small question. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. >> But it's a good idea. >> Yeah. Because it now gives me the energy to go further and further and further. >> I love to talk about that cuz it's again the education, right? When you understand the how and the wise we had to do things, now you have a different understanding and you can explore more and >> come join us. come be next to us a little bit closer. Yeah. >> Yeah. So you would say that if someone starts building now just separate the two make a make a backend kind of server API. >> Yeah. >> I this is the way I tell everybody. This is native PHP is not a way to turn your Laravel application into a mobile application. This is a way to build mobile applications with >> Laravel. >> And that's really what that's really what we're we're designing this for. We want Laravel developers to be able to do mobile, right? >> And maybe we can figure out ways to do desktop and mobile and web and I would like to get there. I mean, we hear this a lot. So, >> um, you know, I I think like we want to please a developer experience. It's the same it's along the same vein, right?
So, >> yeah. Yeah, >> maybe we do that, but there's a lot of work to do between now and there. >> Yeah. Okay. >> We know that it's not the solution that we're going to hear tomorrow at 11. This this is going to be fixed. >> Nope. No, not yet. Right. Okay. >> I I I want to share the share it so bad. It's going to change everything >> the world or >> I'm really excited though. >> Yeah. >> And it's and it's and it's uh it's going to be uh I'm I'm working my butt off to make sure it's backward compatible like all the changes that are coming out. Um it should be it should be backward compatible, but you probably won't want to go back after we go forward. >> Oh, okay. Okay. H >> do you have a final question? >> No, I I'm now I'm just thinking what could it be? What could it be? So that would be my final question, but you're not going to tell us now. >> I will not. >> No. No. >> Okay. And the last question then here from me. Um so what are the talks that you're most excited about to not your own but the other uh ones? >> Really just mine and Simon's. >> No, I'm just kidding. >> Yeah. >> Uh I know what Marcel is doing. He's last tomorrow. So Marcel's uh releasing announcing something pretty cool that I've got to sneak peek and I won't give it away but it's it's pretty interesting stuff. I always look forward to the panel discussions of course.
Yeah. Yeah. >> Um I was >> going that's the topic will be AI right there over there. >> Yeah. Uh maybe maybe >> maybe we'll see. Uh I really was looking forward to Leah's uh she's we became very good friends after talking in different places and all this stuff. we keep meeting each other in different places around the world. So, it was good to like >> I sat front row and I was like, "Woo!" You know, just got pumped up and got everybody going and uh so that was fun. And um >> I mean I think like everybody's talk I'm excited about. I I like learning. I think um >> Dan Herren I learned so much stuff that we can apply to native PHP just the way he was thinking through things. I'm like that's >> really nice really nice API kind of building stuff. So >> yeah, especially for something like native PHP it's Yeah. Yeah, I understand. >> Especially with the stuff that's going to be announced tomorrow. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Kept going back to that. Yeah. >> So, all to all the uh Dutch Laravel team members, watch also the live sessions of Laravel.com on on YouTube tomorrow at 11. Yeah. So, the audience is even bigger than it is here in in the stage.
All right. Well, uh can I uh thank you a lot? >> My pleasure. My pleasure. >> Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Give me the opportunity >> and um good luck tomorrow. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, there we go. >> Welcome to the Dutch Lound. This one is for you. 2026. >> Cool, man.